The philosophy behind HR and our way of working predates most of the tools we use. While companies focus on sales and productivity, most neglect to measure one of the largest sources of value within the organization – the employee experience. Jessica Zwaan has made it her mission to teach executives and their companies how to transform the employee experience using product management principles, maximizing value for all stakeholders involved.

Jessica Zwaan is the author of Built for People, the current Chief Operating Officer of Whereby, and a former COO advisor for clients like Soundcloud, Talentful, and Bolt, among others.

In this episode, Dart and Jessica discuss:
- The 3 things every company sells
- Distinctions between people operations and human operations
- Viewing work as a product and determining its value
- Tracking the cost versus value of employees
- The 3 aspects employees want out of their work
- Value vs. volume when it comes to employees
-  2 maxims of product management applicable to HR
- And other topics…

Jessica Zwaan is an author, speaker, and early-stage start-up executive. She is the current Chief Operating Officer of Whereby and a former COO advisor for clients like Soundcloud, Talentful, and Bolt, among others. Her latest book, Built for People, helps teach organizations and leadership how to transform the employee experience using product management principles.

With a background in operations, people, and talent, Jessica’s work has spanned across three continents. Jessica holds a First-Class Honours law degree from the University of Law in London. She is an international panelist and speaker and also hosts the podcast “There's This Thing at Work.”

Resources mentioned:
Built for People, by Jessica Zwaan: https://www.amazon.com/Built-People-Experience-Management-Principles/dp/1398608025
The Book of the Courtier, by Baldesar Castiglione: https://www.amazon.com/Book-Courtier-Baldesar-Castiglione/dp/1519086954
The Experience Economy, by Joseph Pine: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-New-Preface-Authors/dp/1633697975
The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, by Thomas Kuhn: https://www.amazon.com/Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-50th-Anniversary/dp/0226458121
The Good Enough Job, by Simone Stolzoff: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Enough-Job-Reclaiming-Life/dp/059353896X

Connect with Jessica:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicamayzwaan/
www.jessicamayzwaan.com

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.